TMGP Ep 12 with coach, PhD student, and researcher Jake Remmert part 2

oo another white boy with a podcast pronouns Jim bro another white boy with a podcast you want to see the video it went viral hi Gaines gurus and welcome to tmgp the muscle growth podcast episode 12 I am your host Rosco and today we are welcoming Jag remit onto the show for part two of his two-part series to hear part one please check out the previous episode episode 11 Jake has a BS honors in exercise science and is a certified strength and conditioning specialist he is currently a researcher lecturer and PhD candidate at Florida Atlantic University where he is working in the muscle physiology laboratory here his research focuses on optimizing program design to maximize hypertrophy and strength Jake is also a coach with datadriven strength where he provides Educational Services and one-on-one coaching for clients with goals ranging from Elite power lifting performance and competitive bodybuilding to recreational strength muscle growth and fat loss he is a competitor himself as well with nearly 10 years of training experience and multiple competitions under his belt in today's episode we can look forward to insights from Jake related to his projects in Academia and using research studies and datadriven techniques to drive strength and hypertrophy gains given that brief glimpse into Jake's remarkable background let's jump right into the show okay cool let's hop into the papers um the effect of resistance training proximity to failure on muscular adaptations and longitudinal fatigue in trained men I love that it was done in train train men I mean and train people let's let's just say otherwise it's we do need more we need more women we're trying absolutely I get I I get you and and hopefully uh maybe do you have any female participants in your current uh that's cool yeah all all the stuff we've been doing the last couple of years uh we're trying to really as much of a 50/50 split as we can get wow um and trained and trained as well uh we you train people for for our studies here um okay I have I have done one in my undergrad I had one study that was had a mixture of untrained as well but uh it kind of depends on the on the on the study right on the question that we're training for sure for sure so for this paper let's like we're going spit uh splitfire I think is the term that we used previously um well spit I can't remember splitfire let's go to that word you want man yeah yeah so like summarize abstract like conclusion any really interesting things or really weird things like you go the Flor is okay so that one that was my Master's thesis actually ni and um with that one we we were trying to see you know there there's some research on how accurately people can judge their proximity to failure right um and we wanted to get well hold on let me let me let me back up um my my master CIS was a part of this project right it wasn't the whole project so the the the bulk of it which is the the results that are in that paper specifically are on the adaptations over I can't remember how many weeks it was eight weeks maybe um between people training at different proximities to failure right so they're either going to failure they're going to stop at I think it was one to3 R right 7 to9 RP or 4 to 6 RP which is 4 to six r and uh that one you know let's just say we learned a lot in that study that if you read the paper you can see you know we we are exceptionally cautious with with how it's presented because um the the failure group had to be discontinued uh halfway through because people were getting hurt right um so we had to stop and uh so there was that and then even in the 7 to n RP group the people who there was enough people getting a lot of discomfort from squatting that close to failure um that we had to pull that back so then it became you know th those were the RPS still for bench as we went but for squat now it's like all the squats easier so that kind of changed halfway through um the ultrasound measurements that we used for hypertrophy were um you know the we learned a lot since then right so those measurements were were Sol but they could have been better so that they there was just more it's not that they're bad it's just that there was um enough variability just due to the measurement device that uh the quality of the measurement device that we had to um we just we just can't be super super confident in everything that we found right like there's just so much variation so um basically what what we ended up finding was that you know for for strength being a little bit further from failure tends to be good um for hypertrophy we really can't say anything is really the the main we can't say anything mostly because the data just kind of got messy you know so that's one of those like uh more research needed right is like the the whole asct um but uh it was it was still a great experience and like I said my my Master's thesis kind of got to be tagged in as part of that that did not get messed up thankfully um but uh but yeah it's it was a it's still a really good study to have done it it was just uh you know one of those learning experiences for for us and uh and others so for sure no and and I get I get what you mean it's really cool that you guys still published it and that it didn't affect your mes I think that's that's main thing for sure like we still want to get it out there right like it's still useful information it just we we had such high hopes for it going in you know and and then um it's just that's how it goes dude and that's some of the stuff that you don't think about with research until you actually get in there and try to do it is like oh wow this happened oh because people were getting hurt that's why they did this or what you know um so yeah yeah well well done I'm sure your ethics for or had something say I had something to say about like hang on you need to stop now how many were there that come when when I should say to be to be fair when I say injury I don't it's not like right it's like somebody's hip is sore enough that they don't want to do it anymore yeah it's it's more stuff like that but it's still nonetheless like that like you know if someone's training on their own they're not going to squat that weak because their hip hurts right yeah okay and you don't want to force them just to see you know just test the ERS no right exactly okay that's interesting and in terms of uh your next one uh well I don't know what order they were but the next one we have here accuracy of interet repetitions in reserve predictions uh during the I don't know I think I saw that you had read um a few different exercis like I see this bench here I'm not sure if there was one for squash and think can we maybe um kind of I don't know if you can Bunch them if you can't that's fine but just just try and save time can you kind try and like maybe Bunch them into one if you did have multiple ones like what was the overall kind of uh findings for those various different ones where it was um basically testing the accuracy of predictions from athletes for different exercises yes uh which Thank You For reing Me In by the way I know I can ramble like crazy so um always tell me to shut up if you need to no the so uh I I've I've had two studies on that same topic right of how accurately people can judge their proxim failure one was in my undergrad and then one was my Master's thesis so it was it was actually really cool that it could kind of build on itself like that so the undergrad one we did bicep curl tricep push down and seated cable row and that was with men and women trained and untrained right so a really big um breadth of subjects and then the master thesis one was just the bench press it was going to have the squat but the squat you know we had to discontinue the highp stuff um but so was just the bench press there and that was J in trained men on that one but uh sort of across both we got similar results in that the uh accuracy was really good on average right which is I think the key point that uh which kind of lines up with the rest of the literature on the area that people on average are quite good at judging how close to failure they are um on average there's a met analysis from Halprin that found on average it's like about one rep off uh which is pretty good I think functionally that's good enough right like if you think it's two but it's really one or three that's not a huge deal probably right um and as you go through a training block you add a little bit of load you add some reps you get closer to failure solves itself but um anyway so it kind of lined up with that people were pretty accurate that the bench press data on the trained men they were very accurate like it was a lot of less than half a rep off on average um and that one we were looking at also did they get more accurate over time which I was really interested in because like although on average people are really accurate as I found in that undergrad study with the three different exercises uh even untrained people were on average very accurate um that there's still some people who are not as accurate right like that's the average is the key thing right I get it I I I would wct that average so badly uh the uh I promise this is quick very quick tangent on that is I had this right I was doing leg extensions and I was going to what I thought was two R and I was like okay set a 12 two R maybe the next I got 11 or something two r on this last one let me go to failure just to see just to kind of audit myself and I got like 30 reps or something like it was ridiculous so yeah yeah you and I would have both uh catastrophically destroyed your averages then that's why I just basically go to zero R pretty much everything these days man just solve it but um anyway so we so the the I was like did some of these people who aren't as accurate do they get better over time we found no they did not because they were [ __ ] well the the I right the the key is they're not the same subject so if we would have taken the same subjects through a longitudinal study maybe they would have maybe they wouldn't I don't know but the the one where we tried to look at it was all in train men they were so accurate from the get-go they just didn't get more accurate over time so overarching stuff we found is on average people are pretty accurate they did not get better at over time but probably because they were accurate to begin with they tend to be more accurate with lower rep sets right uh which probably is relating to like the discomfort of high rep sets right it's just hard to tell people tend to be more accurate um in later sets in a session which makes sense right as you've done one set now you can kind of calibrate that for the next set or whatever um so all kind of lines up with with the other studies in the field uh but it was still cool that was actually the first um longitudinal study on if people get better over time which is cool there's since been another one that they also did not get better over time because they were accurate to begin with so we got to try to find that's like I'm so tired of studying that to be honest but like the if if there's another study on that topic that I have to do it's going to be let's take High rep leg prep or like extensions or something it's hard to judge do that for a while and see if they get better over time like that's that's the thing that would be interesting I think especially like four r or something like yeah I think on that note like you mentioned I think I'm I'm pretty good at um judging low rep uh work like how close I am like if I got one more or two more three more but as soon as you mentioned like going like 20 20 or 30 uh RM like it could could be 10 off plus minus like and then what what I do when I'm doing that like the high rep stuff if I'm still if I'm getting close to that like goal that I had set then I'll start slowing it down and making it really difficult I'm like okay am actually going to force myself to hit 30 or or be within a few but uh yeah I think that would hopefully they don't hit you with it though you must give it to one of your um one of your students I think they must can you can uh help them and give them advice but they they must do the work you can judge you can grade them now or maybe somebody listening needs an idea for their Master's thesis there you go there we go hopefully hopefully um predicting total back Squad repetitions from repetition velocity and velocity loss that that sounds pretty interesting I see you've got a few I don't know quite how they work like I see you've got numbers next to them is that different journals that they were released to what are those numbers represent sorry I'm Notre not entirely sure oh don't worry it's probably just Journal numbers or publication numbers something um so yeah I got a few of those on your research gate uh what what were your findings for that and did did they change did you do different just squats or were the other I see squ Squad okay and Squad believe so yeah yeah that one was um from a handful of years ago actually that I wasn't here for any of the data collection it was done previously and then um myself and Josh uh Pand who's also in the lab here we we both tried to help kind of get it across the finish line so we both helped to finish writing the paper and that stuff but um that one I'm trying to to be completely honest with you I'm trying to even remember what the results were because that one it's been a minute I wasn't involved in the data collection process I and then it's been a minute since we finished writing it so it's that one is escaping my brain if I'm Str we've got we've got you've got 20 so we've got others to CH on and then I tell you what when you've published your current uh research then we can jump back you can do a little refresher there we go effector proximity to failure during resistance training on upper body yeah those so some of these are probably um abstracts that we did at a conference so okay when we did that last year we I think there was four of them there was uh upper body strength upper body hypertrophy lower body strength low lower body hypertrophy they were all from that same study I talked about with the different RP groups and the failure group all just pieces of that data when when you go to a conference like you need to just present a very concise little I get you okay um that's what those are yeah okay brilliant thanks for that I didn't know that and then the resistance trading proximity failure and responses of neuro protective markers is that still the same stuff or is it not different that that one is a little different um um that's another one that I was involved with very very little so I'm not super familiar with the neuro protections stuff I know that prior students that have been at this school in this program have looked a lot into like um brain derived neurotropic Factor that's a um marker of neuro protection right it seems like it helps to you know delay some of those like Alzheimer symptoms and cognitive decline with age and those sorts of things that is probably um increased with uh exercise right and um that you know I'm I'm certainly not an expert in in that specific thing by any means but that study was you know trying to look at that a little bit as well um that is another one that the results Escape me because I was not super involved uh so yeah there you go not BR and I it makes perfect sense I do quite a lot of uh well I don't know what to call it I guess fun Research into like longevity and things and everything points to like uh muscle growth or not muscle growth but muscle total muscle and uh exercise being like two literally top five factors for longevity like for over everyone I guess so for the whole population which is super interesting and something that I really enjoy and I'm going to definitely actually had a bio hacker guy on Riley Javis interesting okay sleep and things and and I'm actually doing his genetic testing and all that stuff at the moment so that's very cool stuff going in there and in terms of let let's jump into the next one um dose response relationship between estimated resistance training proximity failure strength gain and muscle hypertrophy a series of meta regressions yes this was what I mentioned earlier the uh meta analysis looking at the effect of rir on hypertrophy and strength this was that paper so that was taking all the studies that at least in some way compared different proximities to failure and very few of them were very clearly defined so a lot of them um you know they had a group trained to a certain velocity loss um so like until their reps slowed down by a certain amount or maybe they just did this many reps with this percentage of one RM so things like that where we had to estimate the r and the methods for estimation are all in the supplementary materials that people want to read through those and um you know see if they agree with how he did it or not but um but anyway so there's a lot of that going on and then we're able to look at all of that see if there's some sort of dose response with hypertrophy um and with strength and uh for hypertrophy seems like there is there is some sort of relationship there that on average closer to failure tend to lead to better growth uh initially it seemed like an exponential relationship to where um closer to failure was better and then you got this little like thing where failure was really cool that since you know we've uh version two like I mentioned it's now sort of out there a linear relationship seems like a little bit better fit uh so people can calm down about taking everything to failure but um but yeah so that's the hypertrophy stuff so that's that's cool for strength um not much a relationship at a set load right so basically the idea for strength being if you're doing you know um let's say sets of five or something right um maybe these are like your back off sets or or whatever that probably don't want to just get closer and close to failure because we're doing more reps and because we're getting more and more fatigued right if we're getting closer to failure because we're getting more fatigued we're doing more reps that doesn't seem to be helpful for strength if we're getting closer to failure because the load is getting heavier that is helpful for strength right so how I try to you know kind of guidelines would be um how to actually apply that like top sets awesome let's have that load go up uh because usually the rep number is constrained there right on like back off sets or if we're just doing you know straight sets or whatever usually try to cap those at like somewhere between you know five to seven or eight RP something like that on average um like we're we I don't want to push all those to failure right because we're getting too tired by the end Force production might be going down a little bit that's really not what we want so we want to stay a little bit further from failure um on those anyway I'm rambling again there you go not not at all as rapid fire as I can be yes there we go perfect next one one uh longitudinal markers of muscle damage were you quite involved not really skip pass that's one um um that that I believe is from that same study the same proximity to failure study where we were doing um we were looking at like muscle soreness and perceived Readiness to train and those sorts of things that uh again got a little tricky because we had to leave the failure group early on we had to change the squat protocol so it got a little bit messy but you know it's it's what you would think right like when you're training closer to failure people tend to feel a little more fatigued on average um yeah okay um what were those markers for the muscle damage that was um so we had what's called a what is the name of it I'm forgetting now but it's it's a little machine that you can push into somebody's muscle they tell you when it hurts no uh I can't remember what it's called anyway but yeah it's like a pressure pain where you you push and there's a little pressure sensor and they tell you when it hurts so like if you can push harder before they say it hurts then that's like they're less sore does that make sense did did you check the with the Ethics Committee at we did we did yeah it doesn't hurt that bad it's not super comfortable but no but we had that and we also took uh blood samples so we could look at freezing kyes and um interlan 6 and I think we wanted did three also uh but like just some markers of muscle damage in the blood and markers of inflammation as well um to you know those how they changed are those precursors to muscle growth um that's a great question man I I I can't say that I know enough about it my I my not having looked at this a ton is that there at least the inflammation stuff is associated with growth I'm not sure that um I would say it's causitive of growth sure sure sure um certainly the inflammation process is part of it absolutely yeah that that that goes along nicely with the um the work done now on the cold water immersion and that kind of stuff showing that reduced uh swelling is bad for muscle growth like you do want to swell a little bit not not too much and not chronically yeah right yeah yeah there's a sweet spot yeah for sure like like everything think you you mentioned a few things that are tradeoffs and and what it'll be super interesting and I think that maybe like in a while we should get some machine learning models to kind of figure out what that kind of optimal Sweet Spot might be because that would be super interesting and super doable on a computer um yeah accuracy so again interet reps and Reserve but in single and multi-joint uh train men and women is that the same one this was the one I did in my undergrad yeah where we had the bicep curl price to push down seated rows same same Trend in the results I will say one cool little thing about that one was that um I measured I had them um estimate R differently so usually they would either some studies like by hack it for example they'll do like 10 reps and then estimate R and then continue the set to failure to then see how accurate they were uh we've had some stuff from our lab previously where they've done they're going to failure and they'll just call out you know when they think they have three R when they think they have one R and then you know you can sort of back calculate how accurate they were that's what my Master's thesis did in this one what I did was I had them go when they felt like they had five R they said five and then after that point every single rep I had them tell me what R they thought they had um just to look at it at a different way right and um that what we found was that that initial time they said five they were way off right like by like they were off by like six or something um so like that initial guess of of five R isn't great but when they get to like saying four for example they're pretty good right which kind of makes sense you're feeling it out as you go and when they get to set two so much easier to judge because you just did a set to failure and you know so it kind of same way for the most part yeah I adjusted it slightly to maintain a certain rep range um but for the most as is small adjustments but um so that's practically what what I usually what I would take away from that is like if you're telling somebody to do sets until five R might be cautious right they might not be super accurate I might like in terms of deliberately programming a certain R probably you know three or four is probably about as far away as I would do um but yeah that's super useful and I hope the coach is listening take take that in there we go um effect of uh so this one was the thick of uh two so one for the the peek and one for the lat I think is that is that correct uh I don't think we've done a lats we've done peek and and uh quad for sure oh sorry sorry yeah um MRE vastus lateralis not not L yeah oh yeah yeah yeah yeah sorry sorry sorry confus yeah I never match me um but uh yeah those are from that same data yeah those are from uh more conference abstracts I think and was and like you mentioned pretty um pretty strong correlation initially from n r that you thought might be exponential but then on subsequent uh studies then more linear yeah um it still seems like you know closer to failure on average a little bit more growth but you know not quite as uh Sensational as it seemed at first I guess yeah there a how it all goes right yeah there's a lot of uh hype on the finally we have you got to train failure you're not getting any gains if you're not training failure for a while on the internet and then kind of Das down I guess I guess that's that's why yeah yep so the last one I've got here this one I hope you did because it's super interesting so sorry if you did if you're not like that involved but methods for controlling and Reporting resistance training proximity to failure current issues and future directions yeah that was first that was the first publication that we had actually which is cool oh W so I guess I went order top to bottom probably because you mentioned I think yeah maybe so so um but yeah that one was cool that that one it's it's more geared towards research methodology than um then practically applied things yeah and um a lot of this was because of what eventually went into that meta analysis of dose response of R to for hypertrophy and strength was that so many of these studies just do not control proximity to failure or they don't report it either right so like you know I I'm sure everyone has has noticed this by now if they're not aware of the research but like you tell somebody to do a set of five at 75% one at Max I might get you know rp6 you might get rp2 someone else might get rpe 10 right it's vastly different between different people um and then you know if you do velocity loss it can be different if you do whatever right the all these different methods that people do it's not that they're not valid it's not that it's not good but it just isn't quantifying proximity to failure in the way that currently seems like the most useful which would be reps and Reserve um so that's kind of what that paper was trying to outline was like here are the different methods people use here's why it's really difficult to say anything about what's the best proximity failure to train at because we just don't measure it ever right um so that's why it's really hard and then we sort of proposed at the end um a method that might work really well which was to use velocity alongside a set to failure so basically you do a set to failure measure velocity every rep and then from there you get What's called the velocity R profile right to where your zero R velocity was this your one R velocity was this two R so on and so forth you can count all the way back and there we've had some research from our lab that shows that it seems to be relatively stable uh you know over time different for different people different for different exercises so it becomes a pain in the butt to make this profile for everyone in every exercise but um seemed like it it would work right that so there I could say you know um maybe my 2 R velocity on um this leg press is. 22 meters per second sweet right so that means if I want my study for people to train until 2 R I'll have this subject train until their velocity hits 0 22 or you know thereabouts and then they'll stop and it's like it seems it seems perfect right um so we attempted to do this right we we had a study where where we were doing this and it's just not as clean as you would think it would be for a variety of reasons right like it's see it's it's completely dependent on every rep being done as fast as they possibly can right they can't past themselves or anything like that which is hard to do uh it's just really hard to do espe consistently um you know so that's an issue people get stronger over time so like that can that gets funky if people like misgroove something the velocity is slow right but maybe it's not because they're fatigued it's just their technique got weird so there's all these weird little things that that happened to just made it not that clean and um so that we learned a lot and I'm glad that we tried it and I don't it's not bad it's just not the perfect solution that we wanted so uh you know to be determined we're trying to figure out a better way to do that that but um good news is people can just subjectively rate rir and they can be pretty close right we have enough research to feel pretty confident in that so that is good that's good um in terms of the Velocity was that on the concentric aspect of the lift like for example doing a bicep call but then also you can't really get that unless unless you have Machinery I guess to get the velocity or is it like a correct kind of okay okay so you couldn't program that like coach he's going 0.22 m/ second check take a look at that that's right okay so it was more for a lab a lab situation yeah I mean you can buy the velocity trackers I think they're uh okay there's some that are you know 3400 US dollar now which is like still a lot of money I'm not gonna buy one but yeah like it's a lot of money but people do buy them right yeah I know for sure I've had clients that have used them right and we've had some some good success and like on an individual level it's you know you can figure out of those weird little you know uh what's the word I'm looking for performance optimizers we're talking about here the yeah DEC serious yeah yeah trying to design a research study with it got got a little yeah not perfect so we'll we'll try to improve and we'll try it again at some point I get you and I'm so sorry for jumping around like this uh I completely forgot in the in the introduction I forgot to ask you what got you initially interested in in this whole um like in in basically muscles and growth powerlifting all of that um well initially way back in the day it started with Dragon Ball Z like a lot of people um you know I just seen just watching I watched a lot of anime my whole life right um like I one of my earliest memories of seeing Dragon Ball Z I can't remember before so it's that's where a lot of it started just see these Jack D on the on TV saving the world I'm like I want to do that and you know so that was kind of the initial thing but then some of it was for sports you know I played a bunch of different sports gr I wasn't great but like I tried at least um and in high school they got us the weight room and that was something that was kind of fun but then a lot of it sort of came back to um just wanting to change how I looked right like look like an anime character yeah and and just wanting to just wanting to look different right like I I was fortunate that I was never bullied or anything growing up um but nonetheless still felt a little bit uncomfortable like just in my skin and I was just I just want to look different right and um I remember I was like well how do I want to look well those guys look on the TV look great right um so you know tried doing this lifting weights thing and and just sort of uh fell in love with it initially for hypertrophy and then I heard about powerlifting and I was like huh that that seems really cool let different and that's um I like the numbers and the let me try that right and I I fell in love with that and just power lifted for like I don't know four or five years or something and competed a handful of times and it was super fun and um again I wasn't amazing I was a very average powerlifter but um it was still a blast I made a bunch of friends and connections that's part of why I got down here you know I think your dots I think I stoed your dots with 330 on your loss that's not average oh maybe I don't know is that below average no okay no like I think decent dots is 300 and then Super Advanced dots is like 350 and then off that you just you just yeah yeah I'll take it uh someday I'll have to come back and see if I can get that 315 bench I never uh I got to 297 and just never went back to try to it's been a few years it's gez it's been three like three and a half years or something now since I've power lifted um I just kind of wanted to try bodybuilding and stuck with stuck with it it's just been really fun someday I'll go back for sure but um I I really I'm glad that I've done both because I really developed a love for both for different reasons um they just mean different things to me uh you know like a on a emotional this I don't want this to sound weird but like almost on a spiritual level they just feel very different and very special to me for different reasons so I will come back someday to the powerlifting side but for now it's nice to not take 45 minutes to warm up and do one exercise you know no I get you I get all right so last last question before Clos closing thought um if you I know it's a weird question um and I understand that there's weird constraints on it but it's my question so I can do what I want um if you are traveling if you are traveling on a spaceship to Mars and wanted to maintain your muscle size but you can only take uh 10 exercise like you can only do 10 exercis like your space suit only program to allow your body to do it's it's a weird one I know to do 10 specific exercises can you give me a rundown of those 10 exercise like grip width exercise name and then any other like extras to that ex like the type of bar or the you know whatever other things you want to throw in there and you can have anything you want like this is a it's a cool space suit but it's got the only 10 space for 10 excise in in its memory let's say Okay cool so uh let's go 100% with Smith machine squat on one of the Smith machines that is at a slight angle I don't like the straight up I mean straight up and down ones are fine but I like the slight angle it's just really comfortable for me feet pretty close heels elevated just a little bit it's nothing just crushes my quads like that so I want that for sure um let me go through muscles in my head give me barbell rdl's I know it's super basic but like you know I can do one set of that and be super sore the next day they're great I like those um hot take Bulgarian split squats I actually really like those these days I used to hate them but for whatever reason yeah I get 100% glute out of those it's great um but we move on to upper body stuff give me a good really really good chest press machine where I can get really deep stretch uh we have one in our lab that's from Body Solid that is the best chest press machine I've ever used in my life I love that thing uh you get so deep it's great so give me one of those give me a that's what four give me a nice row machine that's maybe like a prime row that's like hard in in the stretch position that'd be great give me a maybe a lap pull down that's like give me give me a neutral grip on that row by the way let me do a lap pull down neutral grip maybe like just outside my shoulder width I like that a lot how many is that now six six yeah six um pec deck fly some of these Basics man meat and potato stuff I just still love them I don't know why but a good pec deck that again lets me get really nice and deep on that stretch and uh is smooth some of them feel weird and choppy so give me a nice smooth one um I need curls in my life so bicep curls let me do like a cable bicep curl where my arms kind of back behind me a little bit my shoulders stand asan Co there we go there we go give me that give me that nice curl um Old Faithful tricep push down with like the v-shaped bar okay right um I'm always a big fan of those and what else we need should up give me two more give me a good um cable lateral raise we have a tonel in our lab now that I'm in love with for these because you can do e overload uh like it feels phenomenal for lateral raises so give me like a a good behind the back cable lateral raise and that's nine um oh geez um let me do well if I'm if I'm trying to keep the entire physique what am I missing Cavs Cavs yeah Cavs Cavs or ABS H man um can I cheat body weight curls body weight like body weight crunches right to hit the ab so I can get a calf machine is that cheating yeah that's cheating that's cheating all right you know I get you I get you I the chest exercises we had a lot for chest I like them both I get you get you got to have a big chest do you need do you don't needs anyway or do I need a a standing uh a standing machine where the platform is high enough that I can get that good deep stretch um but not so high that like I like it that that perfect height to where my heel can just barely tou the ground you know what I mean so that I can so I'm not like cuz my balance is really bad so I want to be all that yeah do bulgarians it can't be that bad I can't do that got oh do you oh okay okay okay oh for sure I I use a squat rack everyone can hate me but that's fine what so you hold on with with one hand and have the dumbbell in the other yep okay yeah okay that makes sense yeah I can't I can't stay I can't stabilize on that I've actually out of the program because it's just I get it fine I get it all right well we're on to closing thoughts so what advice or parting words of wisdom do you have for our listeners who are looking to embark on their own journey of muscle growth and health I guess but most muscle gr wow um this might sound funny after we've talked about so much research stuff but I think the biggest thing is like never let any of that get in the way of just consistently working hard like that that is it it really it's so funny because at the end of the day like it really does just boil down to like trying really hard for a long time intensity know yeah you got to and and doing it in a way that you still recover from so you can consistently show up right like you don't want to burn yourself out and and all that but like it's so easy to go down this research rabbit hole and to get so wrapped up in that I've done it a lot everyone's done it right where we get so wrapped up in this evidence-based thing and sometimes we forget to like just keep some of that brute in our program you know and like sometimes you just got to get in there and have some fun and go to town and you know I think that's great you know absolutely got to have an anime Montage kind of thing going in for some of the ex you got to you out to 100% any anything else uh I don't know man I I think um you know if people are interested in the research side that's awesome and and I definitely would encourage people to you know um investigate that stuff to whatever depth they want right if they want to go the the grad school PhD route that's awesome if they want to go the route where you know you're not going through the formal academic side but you still want to learn all about it and be in that world and talk about it and think about it and write about it and whatever like that's awesome and you know I never want people to feel like they have to do a PhD to do research stuff right like you you can still you know um be involved in that world without doing all of that there there are you know certain opportunities that are only available you know when you do certain things but um it's not you know we don't need to gatekeep more than we have to right um so I I guess there's that's what I'll say on the research front right like if you're excited about it learn as much as you can soak it all in man and um and have fun at the end of the day right that's what it's all about and have fun we're trying to get jacked and strong but we got to have fun along the way absolutely and the the best way coming in with a bit of bi the best way to get jacked in strong and enjoy it is to listen to this podcast let's go that's what it's all about goodbye gains gurus thank you for listening and see you on the next episode of tmgp