TMGP Ep 19 with Male Hormone Expert Dr Moeller part 2

oo another white boy with a podcast pronouns Jim bro another white boy with a podcast you want to see the video it went viral hi Gaines gurus and welcome to tmgp the muscle growth podcast episode 19 I am your host Rosco and today we are welcoming Dr Michael Mohler onto the show for part two of his two-part series Dr Mohler known as Dr MO is another naturopathic doctor and a leading expert in optimizing male hormones like testosterone for improved body composition Dr Michael Mohler is a leading naturopathic doctor and hormone specialist who has dedicated his career to helping men optimize their health and age gracefully after receiving his bachelor's degree in premedical Sciences from Southern Illinois University Carbondale in 2013 he went on to earn his Doctorate in naturopathic medicine from bastter University California in 2017 the majority of Dr M's clinical practice focuses on testosterone optimization therapy intravenous nutrient therapy specialty lab testing and regenerative injection therapies like Prolotherapy and platelet rich plasma PRP he is passionate about using natural evidence-based approaches to help men address issues like low libido erati dysfunction muscle loss and cognitive decline in addition to his clinical work Dr Muller is an accomplished researcher writer and educator he has conceived implemented and completed multi-year doctoral research projects involving intensive historical investigation Dr Moher also hosts his own podcast called the Michael Moher mentality where he shares his expertise on men's health hormones and optimal aging when he's not in the office you can find Dr m in the gym hiking in nature or spending time with his family he is known for his bold passionate and enthusiastic approach to helping his patients achieve their health goals whether you're dealing with joint issues want to build muscle or simply optimize your hormones Dr Moler is an invaluable resource in today's episode we can look forward to insights from Dr Mo related to peptides like bpc 157 CJC 1295 creatine and semaglutide big farmer and its Dark Side alcohol the importance of educating people and allowing them to make informed decisions trt effects of low testosterone growth hormone benefits of healthy testosterone levels muscle accumulation and its benefit for longevity and health hey gains gurus before we dive into today's episode we have a special shout out to our sponsor heart and mind saay if you're looking for a delicious way to boost your workouts their creatine gummies can be found on take a lot and are the perfect fit they're not just effective but also a tasty treat you can look forward to every day so fuel your gains with heart and mind saay where your heart mind and muscles come together if you are injured or in recovery check out the injury consultant.com and consider getting a free consultation to see whether I can help you heal restore and Thrive now let's dive into building muscle with Dr Michael Mohler and then the other issue becomes like okay what if what if I you know lost my testicles when I was seven in a biking accident like can I be on hormone replacement therapy then right so the big issue becomes in mind and I'm like you know kind of let them do what they want and then you just kind of know that's that's that's what it is the issue I get it where people who aren't willing to do that yeah then you have natural then fine you go do a natural and I I my last show that I signed up for was actually a Natty show which was I signed up in Indiana and they told me at the last minute I couldn't compete I was really pissed was the last time I prepped like screw this so no yeah for sure and like peptides Banning it is completely insane because a peptide is literally just a short chain of amino acids that it's there's nothing more to it it's incredibly selective probably very safe and anecdotally very safe the issue is that we can't do human trials on them because they're illegal in a in a lot of instances and it's absolutely Bonkers that they are because it's like like you said we already have them naturally and so it's bioidentical same as testosterone and it's like how can you ban something that you have naturally and it just it just doesn't make sense to me same with creatine like you get it naturally from a steak but now if you no one's going to eat five steaks to get the five gr or get one gram from a steak but now it's it's like it's just completely insane yeah and I will clear up you know there I I do think there maybe you know some some of the peptides can do different things right and there is a level when things are naturally produced you can you can go too far right like the gop1 Agnes are now right the siml the the the what's the other one the trizip tide um you can over this you can overdose on anything though you're GNA overdose on I mean that's kind of the thing is like yeah you G have too much w die yeah and that's what they're going to use as kind of the you know the scapegoat ultimately is like that there are bad thing I'm like bad things can happen from all things you're actually better off just educating right like Al that's so straight up poison there is nothing good that comes from oh nothing like maybe maybe you can argue like something in a very small dose But ultimately very little yeah yeah I don't yeah the and I'm I'm even that way I think a lot of the red win that these people like it's the polyphenols and the antioxidant it's not that I don't know I could maybe and again I just always play Devil's Advocate and Steelman like maybe a little bit of alcohol works on the Gaba receptor so if you're stressed out down glass of wine at the end day just helps yeah but you're right man me it's like your you know your liver enzymes messing up your your poison it's poison don't drink and um yeah I'm not happy about the peptide thing and the the funny thing again is um how many people died of bpc157 not like none I've heard of they did a study on on CJC okay which is a growth hormone releasing hormone they did a a a an early study and I think guy died and then they stopped the study and it was like he died of a heart attack for completely you know I mean like how do you could be completely unrelated they've conflated it yes yeah yeah but I'm just saying besides that one study of the CJC and they stopped it I've not heard of you know anything really negative you know versus and if it did we would know right because it be like 10,000 people this year died at bpc 157 we need to ban it it's like I haven't yeah of that and that's CJC 1295 yeah yeah they did have a study and I think it was like in off the top of my head I feel like it was a South American study and they a guy had a heart like a guy died and they're like stop the study and then like three months's like yeah he was 62 and had a heart attack like had nothing you know but it's enough that's and the other thing with that is that it's harder to patent that right like a bpc and an act Pat you can't you can't Pat this and that's big F yeah and and then who's gonna pay right who going to pay to research it if they can't make money from it in the long term that's going to be the biggest issue with all those things big yo it's it's beautiful aging has the disease I'm I'm in on that that's for sure yeah that we we need to we need to fix that and move as Dr Peter Adia says in his book we need to move towards medicine 3.0 which will be um focused on prevention rather than treating symptoms yeah exactly exactly I agree I agree but like um there was a big um publication from one of the big farmers that uh was on cancer and it's like is it a good business model to cure cancer and the result was no it's not it's much better for business to keep treating it but it's like how does that even become like a question you know like in my mind like it's it it should never even have been asked like obviously it's going to be better for profits to keep treating it rather than just the ones of cure but it's like from a humanitarian perspective it's like that the question shouldn't even have occurred to anyone with any Humanity yeah I mean is not to get or heck we can't get too philosophical when you look at the last couple hundred years and you have like this you know capitalism versus communism kind of kind of angle and look I'm I'm going to be biased I'm an Orthodox Christian so I look at things like I just my point of view is just pretty different right I I believe life is good in all way shape and form but we also have to reflect and be like the overarching arching like philosophy of of the United especially in the states is right you know it's capitalism so it's like for money like like and and that leads ultimately to Hedonism right so kind of like my my example earlier about your shoulder it's like it's going to be really hard for me to do what's right for you when I'm incentivized when I make more money sure the issue is I knew this is the whole kicker in my opinion when you have kind of like a hedonistic like I just live life for dopamine kicks right Hedonism is like I just want to feel good versus like having I as a Christian I feel like I have a super I have a transcendental way to have my morality and that is what's going to guide my clinical decisions and so when I have patients come to me like especially you know younger guys I give them options I just don't say hey here's what you do there are things that I will make more money on and I try and do my absolute best to be like okay what do I do in this circumstance and there there in all actuality I think there really would be a major Fallout like if tomorrow a guy came out and said like hey this is the cure to breast cancer it's $15 we would probably have a recession you know in all in all honesty like how many how many and I'm not saying that that's a a good or a bad thing but if your moral compass is sticking to its guns then we deal with it for sure you know what I mean I was that way when when the virus came they were like hey this is how bad it is this is how contagious it is I'm like let it do its thing I don't know what to tell you because I know everything else is going to cause way more collateral damage you want to shut it down in all honesty I was I was probably 20% in favor of that first couple weeks cool let's just shut it down that makes sense lay off the hospitals lay off the medical like until we know what's going on all right I'm not I'm not for it but um you know after a couple months like dude this is dumb like we're we're destroying we're destroying our mental health right we're destroying all these other part you know people are losing their jobs people are losing their minds relationships are being destroyed and ultimately that's where I'm like look if you don't have some type of moral compass outside of money like and I just at least in the states in my opinion most people's moral compass is almost all it's at least muddied by how much money they make their decision is going to at least impacted it's you know so it's tough and I think that's going to be Our Generations these next couple 20 30 years major issue is figuring that out and how to fix it you know because I just want saying 100 to 200 years ago that wasn't as big as a problem right if you're a blacksmith somewhere or you're a farmer you you know in the American dream and I've seen this I was in a Small Town Farmer I moved to LA about this whole idea of making money and all like I saw a quote like boomers are kind of the first generation that wants to be better than their kids like make more money and have more money and do all these things where I just a 100 years ago that wasn't really I don't think that was everyday's person's mind of like I need a house in Florida and California and New York where now people are growing up with that and then you know that's that's what's I think really infected our whole Medical Care system at the end of the day and it's tougher too because as young doctors they're coming out with a quarter million dollars worth of uh and that's a whole other conversation the med the school education system you know um yeah the de and it's so bloated on the administrative end like they're not it'd be different if these docks were you know if I spent a a million dollars and I came out and I could do brain surgery but no now you got to go do that's yeah you got 10 more years of school bro or 10 more years of training so it's not that you shouldn't I'm just saying for the time yeah yeah especially for the BR yeah I gu they did I think they they've compared it like uh a school teacher in the United States versus a doctor and I think it's up until 50 per hour the doc the the teacher has actually made more considering like okay they have Summers off they have a couple days off where you know as a resident you're working 60 hours you're not you know I I by the time I got out of school a lot of my friends had been working for four to six years and they're making 60 or 80 you know it's like I I'm you're so far behind like your life doesn't get started until your late 20s or early 30s if you're a doctor where you're going get a four-year degree as an engineer you come out of 22 it's like you've been working for 10 years by the time that brain surgeon's able to do his own thing so no I get you I get you well let's go back to testosterone what would you say is the minimum effective do minimal in general um right so let let's just say um I'm trying to give you some pretty raw numbers right like there's a pretty big study I think we talked about this one where they it's done in 96 they had 40 guys and they did uh exercise testosterone Placebo testosterone exercise testosterone and um exercise and they gave those guys 600 migs of an Ane a week and those guys all came back with a total around two to 3,000 I think it was like 2500 um in the states most often you're gonna 200 milligrams a week is going to be if I go over that the pharmacists will ask me they'll be like why are you giv 22 250 milligrams a week of testosterone that's uncalled for um I person personally there's times when I've done 200 a week and gotten my you know I'm up 1,500 to 2,000 um so but I've also done you know maintenance doses around you know 40 milligrams three times a week so 120 migs and you still come in seven or 800 um so when guys come to me it kind of depends on where they're at I usually start with conservative lower doses because I'd prefer to be low and and go up tie trade up yeah then shoot them to 1500 you get secondary cytosis which again we can talk about that's an issue or not but you know mood estrogen anxiety all these things that you got a guy who's at 200 you throw him on 200 migs of test a week he'll probably have some side effects just because of the the beginning of the fluctuations of everything um so I'm usually starting guys out on like 40 migs three times a week you know or or 70 migs twice a week so 120 to 140 milligrams I think under 100 milligrams a week your you know your testosterone's going to come in and the four or 500s which that' still be better than if you know if you're at 250 going to 500 is you know gets you out of suicide gets you out of uh you know Ed gets you out of like the terrible stuff so if that's the best your doctor is willing to do okay but I I would argue if you're going to be on tier T like you got you might as well at least be seven to 900 at the end of the day and I and I don't think there's a doctor that can argue that that's terrible in any way shape and form because it's still in the reference range but you're going to feel significantly better going from 300 900 can we elaborate a little bit on those um effects of low testosterone oh yeah I mean usually you kind of have like a you can just look at the difference between an 18y old a 30 40 50 like just think about that right as you're aging you're dropping you know 1 to two% a year right and so I tell guys 0 to 20 you're growing and 20 to if you live to 120 you're slowly falling apart so that reference range is meant when you're you know 18 to 20 you're at you know a, to 1200 and by the time you're 80 you're down at 200 so you know what is what is an 80-year-old man statistically kind of look like right kind of like an 8-year-old woman right that's one thing that you see as as the the gender age they look more and more like each other because their hormones are becoming more similar in the same way you have a baby right when you have a baby first coming out like as it's developing you know besides its sex characteristics a lot of that right when you're 12 or 13 that testosterone guy like 10 X's where with the woman it doesn't do as much and that's why we get all these right so optimal testosterone you're going to have muscle mass energy Drive libido everything I'd argue that makes a man a good man and then as you Teeter down it it becomes a a level of that right so you know slowly you know slowly less energy slowly less Drive slowly less you know libido I would say symptom wise you know when you get in that that 3 400 range and even under 500 you know you'll start noticing hey less morning wood is usually one of the first one guys will be like wow I don't get Morning Wood anymore you know maybe it was every morning and then it's every other morning then it's once a week and then you just don't even notice you have it um less Drive less motivation harder time putting on muscle mass um you know like in that study where they gave guys testosterone the the group that just took test offr room put on as much if not you know their bench press was slightly better than the group that actually worked out you know we think about that you see a you see a 12-year-old and then you don't see him for four years and he's 16 you're like dang dude like you've been working out you know it's like no this testosterone is literally telling his body to put on muscle mass so under 500 I think most guys are going to start to notice some form of symptoms 500 to 900 and look I'm talking total total is just easier to talk about one major issue when you start talking about free testosterone is you have nigs per deciliter and then you have pagram per milliliter which you end up having to move a zero which gets really confusing I think the best way to talk about testosterone is in NRS per deser and then you can talk about testosterone in NRS for Des liter because often you have 2% right so if your testosterone is a thousand right your NRS per deciliter and a free would be 20 does that make sense and the issue is a lot of labs for whatever way why I don't know why they want to do this they move it into pams per milliliter and then you have to move a zero so it would be 200 does that make sense so for people out there when they're kind of looking at their Labs I'm like I'm talking in NRS per deit for both testosterone and free and most often um that most of the studies are all done on total I agree that I look at the free I think it's a better marker but when you're talking to the general public then I have to describe what is that I'm like hey let's just talk total and you can kind of correlate you know over to where your your free would be so I think most guys will have will start noticing less pep in their step even under 500 you're not going to feel terrible you're just going to be like me three to 400 range is when you're just kind of like probably not much zimp in life you're having a harder time putting it on muscle at the gym Energy Drive li beos like less than optimal under 300 is where it's it starts really sucking like you're G you know rectile dysfunction energy dry like no ability to put on muscle and usually when you're you're under 200 to 100 for a long period of time like you're pretty much suicidal at that point like there's just you you have no you know testosterone increases our sensitivity to dopamine and serotonin so you're just not feeling good and uh there's a study on on soccer I believe where they had guys watch their their soccer team right European or you African football and um they watched their team win and their testosterone win up and they watched their team lose and their testosterone went down right so testosterone is very much like where are you at on the the hierarchy of being an alpha or beta you know what I mean Dum by your girlfriend you lose your job uh you don't have any money all those things are going to Nuke your testosterone and then you put on weight then you're not going to the gym so it's a really quick negative feedback loop it's a race you know kind of a race to a bottom for lack of better term at that point so and that's why you know I'm not an addy Maxi I'm like dude if you're at 200 in suicidal let's put you on testosterone let's get you feeling better you're going to go to the gym you're going to put on 10 pounds of muscle and then we're going to get you life you know going in the in the right direction sure for sure I think that's what the Rival look at is to try and help people and get their get their life back on track what would you say is the maximum narus um dose possible that that you've seen um yeah so again I mean it depends on what you mean my non- delarius um like that's not going to give you instant gyno and like hair loss and that kind of thing like what would you say is really pushing it would you say it's like 500 would you say it's a gram a week like it depends if you're like vigorous Steve or like more place more dates or like Greg deset doing his um like his trt so that that 200 milligrams that and especially split over several doses you're you're usually not going to have much to worry about there and that's to be honest being clinical like not being in the realm that those guys are in I only get guys that have you know have a guy oh yeah I'm doing five yeah they'll come to me and help they'll want me to fix them because they're goofed like that so I mean I say a couple different things one that most time you're watching blood like what are the things we have to watch out for right like first thing you said is gyo and in my opinion it is going to be more of the testosterone to estrogen ratio than it is going to be of your total estrogen and I think we have major issues in measuring those levels um that has to do with you have an amuno essay you have you have the liquid chromatography Mass spect spectrometry sorry phonic is not my strong suit um so you have a lot of issue with trying to measure the estrogen and then you have phytoestrogens and xenoestrogens right from foods and from plants so the gyno question is tough I don't really see I don't have any guys that get gyno on a 200 mil like my clinical guys never had a gyo case have I had some guys comeing to me yeah so if you're doing 200 migs a week and especially if it's split up in different doses I think it'd be pretty hard to have gyno from that um my guess would be probably it's gonna and then it's going to be a bell curve you know I think at 200 milligrams a week you might have I don't know maybe maybe 500 five maybe five and 100 guys are G to maybe oh I'm a little n you so then I think it probably goes up significant you know 300 you're getting 10% of guys 400 you're going to get and again you might be better off asking someone with more experience but that's just me forms listening to guys you know 500 milligrams a week most of those guys are from from what I've heard are using some form of estrogen modulation to keep things in check um the other issue is that you know even when I was in school we learned you start with 200 migs a week of test and you do it one shot and it's like a it's like a sip and eight right so looking at seven to 10 day half life then you put them on ACG 250 IUS once or twice a week maybe 500 I use twice a week and then you make sure you give them um one milligram of an asrol maybe split up twice right and I'm and again I have to think top of my head I think ACG depending on your source is looking at a 24 to 36 hour halflife an asol I believe is more like 50 and so now you can look at that and be like okay holy crap like I have three different drugs with three different half-lies and they're all interacting with each other right so I think a lot of when you especially look in Old School you're looking at gear two something one I'll say I think most of those doses are all way way too high um you know when you're talking about guys doing 500 migs a test th000 milligrams a test 500 nalone 100 Ox it's like dude there just your Androgen your and receptors have been saturated dude in my opinion again I'm not you know vigorous Steve those guys they may have more to say on that but in what I've seen in low doses that have been used clinically like giving a guy 10 milligrams of oxy angelone on top of testosterone put on 10 15 pounds of muscle energy all that um the side effects are we don't understand when you're putting four different anabolics together that all and again they're working different right Ox Angel and Angel and completely different mechanism of actions right DHD versus right 17 nor like these things are working different so my long winded answer is like 200 milligrams of Tas I don't I don't I don't see a guy really getting gyo from that especially if you're and then again I'd say dividing your your dos is up really and then it depends are you add an ACG because one thing people don't think about with ACG is ACG you're producing it in your body right ACG is mimicking LH which going down your testes and the issue with that is and I think this is pretty well documented you have your aromatase testosterone and estrogen right that enzyme and your testes and then your five Alpha reductase which turns testosterone into DHD so producing 500 testosterone in your body versus exogenous you're going to have more conversion in estrogen into DHT I'm pretty sure that's pretty well documented and it's been shown when you take DHA you'll have more conversion in the estrogen as well so you know what I mean again a little Nuance the guy and and the guys don't think about that they're like you know I just started taking ACG you know 100 200 IUS a couple times a week and then they blame the testosterone for their gyno it's like well you've upregulated your estrogen production because you're endogenously producing more on top of what you're already injecting so the what do I want to say there's multiple moving Parts in that K other that makes sense yeah and it's hard to figure out what's doing what you know if you want to talk about another example is when people are taking uh psychiatric meds they're taking two different ssris and they're taking a neur uptake inhibitor and they're taking out it's like man I don't know what's doing what and I think if any doctors telling you they know they don't because you're mixing five different things not studies that do that no that is yeah one of the best points I love that people talk about um you know safety or whatever it's like give me you know how many people in America I think I forget what it you know if it's like a Statin we'll just say a blood pressure med and a diabetic drug there's there's like no studies mixing those three things together and telling us they're safe but testosterone is dangerous you know be careful that's wild the wild west out there so in terms of like let's quickly run through some like doing trt safely so we mentioned like the dosing that's a very important thing maybe adding in some HCG um for testicular size and then like trt supplements um what what would you say are important trt supplements or is it not really that big of a deal when I start guys we start on just testosterone I don't do r simers i don't do ACG I don't even do supplements because I want to see how you feel on that you know one of the issues is if I put you on trt and even ACG and you get acne I've had guys have premature ejaculation off HCG it really increases DHD and and it can really help with the sex drive right um there are people that will also start um five Alpha reductase Inhibitors which again I don't touch those those are ones I really stay away from um so you know testosterone start with that and then see where you're at do labs in six to eight weeks if you're not doing lab like you're never really I've never seen a guy uh mess up his liver or kidney function you should run a CBC and a CMP one of the more controversial areas is going to be blood thickness right you get testosterone increases athro poesis that's the process by which we create red blood cells now the old school way was like oh blood's thick donate right issue with that is if you overdate you can go anemic the opposite end now people are saying well hold on people who live at higher elevations Lance Armstrong took EPO TJ Dillashaw took EPO athletes take EPO to increase their oxygen more oxygen good ultimately is they're kind of thinking I'm I'm somewhere in between I think number one donating blood once or twice a year there are study showing that that can be definitely beneficial and if I can keep your hemoglobin hematocrite in a normal range why wouldn't I just to stay away from controversy um the more Progressive people are like don't worry about it and they're just like well the doctors are confusing what would be called I we call it secondary arthro cytosis which means there's there's another process that is causing you to create more red blood cells versus the there's a cancer called poly thymia Vera where your red blood cells start you start popping out a lot of more red blood cells but you also increase the amount of clotting factors that you produce so that causes more issues with cardiovascular disease the thing that I'm probably most concerned about is that if you have a higher hemoglobin and a mochit I think your blood is slightly thicker so that will be harder on your heart and specifically your left ventricle so over a longer period of time I would think that that that may cause hypertrophy of your left ventricle so the cardiovascular thing is you know I mean when I talk about safety that's going to be up to every individual and that's why you should talk with a provider that you'd feel comfortable with figuring out your your your plan with that right and then also if you're modulating your estrogen estrogen cholesterol right you drop your cholesterol what happens to menopausal women their cholesterol panels go very suboptimal right their HDL drops their LDL goes up so if you modulate estrogen um I again I just don't touch it you need estrogen for your bone health you need it for nitric oxide it's it's in a good ratio is good for your libido yeah can to high give you gyno and maybe make you I tell guys like you see a dead bunny on the side of the road and you start crying we can talk about modulating your estrogen then and up up until that point like you know you cry at your daughter's wedding or whatever I think that's good for a guy you should have you know some form of like emotion yeah and and too high too much too low of estrogen you're numb right I've had guys like they're on two high of and that's the other issue with the romaas inhibiters they're just super powerful you know they'll take your EST from 60 to 70 to under 15 almost instantly so yeah um you know those are the main thing right as a young guy you gota be worried about fertility right first thing worry about fertility you know your on trt is going to shut your going ads off um it will come back online never seen a guy not be fertile Arnold Sylvester so you know like dude bodybuilders they're fine they have kids man you don't have anything to worry about BM just had one didn't he yes right so yeah go down the list of every person in Hollywood too they're all saucin yeah for sure I completely agree Chris hamor in that Thor movie look good dude no unbelievable yeah he he was he was uh just shy of being bodybuilding stage ready just shy just shy no dude his his his I was jealous I was jealous yeah I jealous I think I think every guy in the world who saw that movie was was jealous look good man I mean the reaction from from the woman in the movie like that was a realistic reaction yeah yeah I think she Ching I don't blame her man I don't blame her yeah um right so those are the right you fertility blood thickness estrogen at this point you're probably familiar the prostate cancer myths been pretty much debunked once you hit about 250 milligrams per deciliter of testosterone your your your prostate is pretty much saturated so can you nuke it down to zero and it may be beneficial yeah but at that point I'd argue you're better off dead than having a testosterone of zero um me personally I would I would prefer that than beond Lupron which is the again not medical advice get prostate cancer go talk to a doctor but I'm not taking it I wouldn't do it um and then past that right acne balding that's going to be super that's super individualized I tell guys with with hair loss if you're already thinning and you get on testosterone because you have DHD receptors on your hair follicles you're probably going to speed it up slightly what happened to me is like I lost like I I feel like I sheded a little bit my body felt Balan I got most of it back but I did it did speed up my thin my thinning a little bit um yeah same thing with acne it's like hit or miss with people and minoxidil um I think it can be helpful right at the end of the day you're basically vasodilating and causing more blood blood flow right more blood flow more nutrients um I think that if you can deal with it for hair loss most times you're going to be better off applying it uh topically because you don't want systemic side effects um yeah moox yeah it's plenty of good research and again it's one of those things like what is your issue is it is it a blood flow thing like I'm I'm really thin at the at the top of my head so I have my hair pulled back um but they're all you know if you go into the research I was looking at some papers the other night of of using that with retinol acid you know vitam retinol uh or tro tranic acid and um it seems like there's different mechanism of actions that's causing that you know you can plug your follicle right that's where you sweat you're plugging the follicle it's having an issue is is the DHD that's regulating that and then ultimately it seems like definitely on the top of the head there's probably something to do with lack of blood flow to the area um so they're they're worth trying out I think for for most guys but it's a kind of a low hanging fruit I get I got like black bags under my eyes from Tak Min oxidil um topically no that was oral okay yeah okay topically I agree I think te topical I just man I tried a lot of them there's a pain in the ass man like whether you do a foam or you do a dropper and then like I got you know I can get dff pretty easy so just then get a spray yeah even that I just I got you know to be I did I did a transplant I did a looks good thanks yeah no uh be two years in November where I did the they pull out and they plug them in there yeah I was definitely look you go back and look my other ones I was pulling up here and to be honest I was doing it more on the top but yeah I can just pull back over so there we go it looks like a viking so it looked good thanks bro that's what it's going for no 100% so we have a question here um from a from a listener or audience member um I know it's not live right now but they wanted to know about the prevalence of doping or performance enhancement in women a lot of people think that women don't use gear and I agree most of them probably don't use like testosterone hopefully but I think that most influencers who like are incredibly like sculpted and toned all the rest I don't think they're doing that naturally and I I want to hear your your thoughts on on those people as well as the athletes like professional women athletes as well yeah no my my assumption is probably most of them are on Ox Angela right the drug name was you know anavar was the name of the drug and then um o oxyen was the one they actually banned it um last year like 2013 which again is it can mess 2013 last year or sorry 2023 yeah o oxiden was the name of the other right I think it was originally anavar because you know they do that with the like nand and de is generic and it that's that's uh a decad roblet right Ox angelone's generic name anavar um yeah no I mean I think most people um if you've been in the industry long enough and even being in health care when you look at how much harder it is for women to um drop body fat and you just you know you probably muscle what's that and put on museme put that it's extremely hard to do that your body is is it prefers fat in all honesty most time it's it's it's less dense it costs less energy to carry around muscle is hard your body's like why do I have this if I don't need this it's gone ultimately um but if your testosterone is higher it tells your body to hold on to it right and then specifically with Ox angelin being a DHD derivative right talk about DHD is kind of like testosterone's mean or stronger older brother right you can definitely um cause more side effects but when you talk about muscle mass uh sex drive um and that's the other thing is like the the anabolics help so much with that right anyone who's ever taken anything like a oxy angelone versus a testosterone will tell you like yeah the drive the energy the positive feedback and so you want to talk about you know a bikini competitor being able to Fat you know eat how do man I remember when I did my first show she's like yeah I've eaten and again this isn't I don't recommend this the her coach whole other conversation she's like yeah I've only eaten broccoli and tilapia for like three weeks I haven't pooped for three days and I'm like that's unhealthy I'm not a yeah I'm not a bodybuilder coach but I don't is that what you have to do compete as a girl like I'm not you know I'm not doing that but yeah I mean I think it's almost physically impossible you know ESP you know maybe when they're in their they're younger in their 20s but you're probably familiar like they're not not cycling anymore right their their cycle is often messed up and in women it's completely different because with guys we have this every day right testosterone goes up falls down with women you have a whole you know their follicular Cycles in the beginning and then their um L like it's completely different so I would assume it's almost dang near impossible for them to modulate that and when you want to talk about estrog progesterone ratios like um before show even like you're going to be holding our uh retaining more water so yeah I'd argue any woman that's anywhere under 10% is probably manipulating some hormones right 10 to 15% for women is extremely difficult naturally and maintaining muscle mass um and add they probably do a lot of Clan and things yeah and on top of it for the for the weight loss and but again you may they may even I I'm not all that knowledgeable I have a couple of patients that have come to me and it's usually talking to guys like you that hey you know my girls got a show she's taking this this and this is this dangerous yeah I mean it's not not great but I you know getting in a call to yeah I mean you you drive to work you you life is risks it's dangerous yeah so it just depends on what risks you deem necessary and unnecessary I can tell you that's 90% of what I do when guys come to me for trt is like here are your risks here are your benefits things to worry about you know what do you want to do IE yeah so and I don't again I'm not all that super knowledgeable right I'm very familiar that almost all of them are at least on on some form of ox angelone and then on top of that when you get into modulating I don't I'm not as familiar with stacking like a you know if they do a little bit of a test base because they have to really worry about the andronet like the the the masculinization right that's actually oxy angelone was actually developed for for women I think their first studies were burn victims in female women and children yeah I think yeah because they didn't you know they don't want that the the facial hair growth and the you know sorry you'll grow small penis your clitoris turns into a penis if your testosterone dose is high enough be careful um so I think yeah usually they're playing with that versus a testosterone or maybe some other you know 19 Nor derivatives so yeah be just be careful don't take anything that's going to viralize too easy yeah and it's pretty much most pretty irreversible and I've seen it just you know with women just with testosterone you'll get an AMS Apple your voice will be deepen your the one that gets them is clitoral enlargement like that one is usually enough they'll be scared like scared a little bit yeah which is weird for sure I don't care and what about growth hormone do you think that a lot of athletes use that uh I think the issue with growth hormone um like at least in the States you know if you stub your toe I can write you for an antibiotic because I'm a doctor and I can write things off label right the the antibiotic was not St was not studied for toe pain right with testosterone right it's it's FDA approved for hypogonadism so I can give it to you for you know um lack of energy in low libido growth hormone in the states is technically you're not supposed to write it off label so unless you have a actual growth hormone deficiency you it's really hard to get it from a doctor here I between you and I I'm pretty sure there are some doctors that do it then you're looking at defin you know two to three grand though of getting pharmaceutical grade from a from a yeah from a pharmacy right and that's you know that's three I four IUS when you're looking at guys that are tell hey I'm doing 10 IUS a day like dude I'm trying to do the math I'm like dude that pen is $500 for 30 oh man so it's expensive you got money yeah yeah my my two cents on growth hormone um not being a doctor not medical advice from a from a standpoint what I would hope in the future I think a protocol that would be pretty effective is from what I've seen research-wise and talking to people two to three IU seems like pretty safe right what do we we watch for um forever you know it' be it' be it'd be tough you know I I think that doing something like um as you age maybe even once a year and again this is this is not medical advice like but I wouldn't know why in the future we don't do something like once a year someone does uh you know 200 200 milligrams of nandrolone um and two to three IUS of growth hormone a night for like three months you know just like maybe and I know this sounds weird but like just cycle every one to two years put on some muscle mass because prevents diabetes prevents heart disease you break in the States you fall and break your hip you get you fall you go to in the hospital you get pneumonia and die like to me you want to talk about the tools we have now to prevent disease is how do we biohack more muscle that's one of the craziest thing that you want to talk about all these weird biohackers and their glasses and all this other BS and they're fat they're fat they no muscle I'm not trying to be mean but dude you want to talk about the biggest biohack is muscle hands down mitochondria Health heart health like get muscle yeah we've chatted about this a lot on the show and I love hearing it emphasized every time so and that's what I'm saying is like then then if we if we agree on that why do I not do some growth you know and again growth hormone is going to help with energy expens regeneration you know to me and again usually when guys come to me and they go hey testosterone or growth hormone I'm way more um bullish on testosterone it's funny because if you came to me and said hey I have to put on 10 pounds of muscle in three months do I do GH or Testo testosterone for sure I don't and I don't know if there's anyone out there with it argue both what both well both yeah you do both if you could but I would say 8020 that the testosterone if I had to pick just one um but the growth for would obviously you're going to get better sleep you're going to regenerate better it's going to help you op uh regulate your glucose better issue is is the I don't think we have pretty good evidence right now on the on the blood glucose issue right like you can pretty from what I can tell you can induce diabetes right from doing too much growth hormone where that is I think is bro scien right now is that 10 I us an ey and is it for six months or and and and can you maybe maybe you could do 10 IUS for 12 weeks and then you get that optimal regeneration and then maybe you come off for a little bit so when I think about blasting and cruising and cycling that's the only that kind of actually makes sense to me like you just you run a test base and then maybe once a year every two years you go on high you know like a androne and again back pain you want to talk about back surgeries in the United States you want to talk about hit pain like you know I've known guys that have you know osteoarthritis in their hips throw them on 200 milligrams of nerone on top of their testosterone and their hip pain goes away now do they do surgery or do they do nandrolone the rest of life I don't I don't know I really wish we could kind of have more of that conversation and have more research on that um but I'm not hopeful for it right now but if I had to put money down that there's a there's a low lower risk High reward for doing like a small amount of anabolics on top of like a testosterone base for a long period of time I would argue that that society would probably be healthier I mean we got to get people just to buy into the fact that being people being with optimized testosterone is is healthy so I'm not trying to push angel in Oxy angelone especially when they just pulled one of the oxy angelone drugs off the market I agree completely and while on the topic of of injuries and things I'm going to do a little um a little self-plug um I'm actually doing some some Consulting called the injury consultant.com so if anyone here is injured hit up the website and uh or hit yourself up I'm sure you do you also do online consultations or only in person um I yeah no it I'm not doing any injury stuff hor stuff yeah you know most of the guys but online yeah we do T Health I'm licensed in Idaho in California so if you if you need prescription then there's more Hoops to jump through but I I have some guys Australia New Zealand Dubai just a lot of times it's guys that mess their cycle up and stuff and they're like I feel terrible and to do um so no injury stuff though all the injury guys can go to you 100% well just drop drop your link for for guys who want to do um testosterone placement that kind of thing cool plug yourself now oh yeah I mean pretty easy it's just I got a YouTube channel Dr Michael M DRM you know first name last name.com so my website's there um yeah got cly links on there it's usually pretty easy to set up I'm on Instagram YouTube Tik Tok most of the major places now um used I did some podcasts on Apple for a while I mean you get it you do this episode and then you got to chop it up and you got to upload it in all these different places and stuff so most of my content now is I like Instagram YouTube stuff so yeah come and find me got you we do I'm sure people will I hope so yeah all right so closing thoughts um what advice or parting words of wisdom do you have for our listeners who are looking to embark on their own journey of muscle growth and health um I'd say always just be goal oriented right I think there's for me uh putting on muscle I found nothing more beneficial which I'm not good at doing but when I do um is a workout log you know I mean like I there's plenty of times I go in and I just like okay today I'm going to do four sets of this da but when I actually have my workout log number one it keeps me focused in the gym and again you guys might be doing separ like I I'm I work out alone right now and I'm kind of in this hypertrophy I go in to get a pump I just go and feel good this is more of a longevity thing I'm not trying to get 22 inch arms um but yeah I think it's maybe at 55 you will yeah I mean we'll see man we'll see I'm happy where I'm at now I just to me I just look at it a longevity game I need my brain you know to have podcast and chat with people at the end of the day so just be goal oriented you know why are you going to the gym what are you doing put some goals down that's always what's going to you know keep you in line and then I'd argue you filter your reality that way like you're going to be looking for things right you've heard that oh yeah I need I want to get this uh new Jeep Wrangler and then you drive around that's all you see is cheap Anglers right so definitely staying focused on your health and um you know ultimately being advocate for yourself right be advocate for yourself have your goals go after them and um yeah say those are probably two of the bigger things for for most of at least for my patience right it's two of the bigger things we talk about so I love the message so stick to your goals decide on your goals stick to them and then stay focused I I love the message message so thank you so much and and and do low hanging fruit you know if that's putting your gym bag in your car like I have so many low hanging fruit like I on my phone like just so I stay off my phone I actually have a I don't know if you know um St George the dragon slayer I have this little bookmark and I actually put that on my phone so when I wake up in the morning like I reminds me to pray and stay off my phone right or whatever that you know loow hanging fruit for yourself like you probably heard that like put your gym bag in your car already packed the night before right whatever gets you to do things like if you have to reward yourself I'm a rewarder too man I'll have a you know I'll have a couple cups of ice cream after I get a good leg workout you know so you know do they definitely help no Atomic habits uh KL Newport it's a good one yes a lot of atomic habit stuff yeah and I'm you know we talked Tim Ferris has got a lot of those four hour 8020 principal stuff at the end of the day so you got to do stuff too that you can also maintain think that's the most important right you know if that's diet or consistency maintenance absolutely yeah and again that comes down to knowing yourself and that's when you pick your goal and sometimes that changes too you know like I I there's still a lot of ego in me you know I won't want to pick up some weight I'm like man I can't what's more important to me you know squatting X am out today or being able to walk next week because I tweak my back I you so figuring out those goals be disciplined loow fruit so and then make it uh applicable fantastic thank you so much for your time Dr Mo hey I was glad to be here anytime you want to do it again and um it was my pleasure hope I hope everyone found it fruitful goodbye gains gurus thank you for listening and see you on the next episode of tmgp