TMGP Ep 28 with Pro Figure Athlete and Team Biolayne coach Ava Cowan and Student, Lecturer and Nutrition expert James Russo p2

oo another white boy with a podcast pronouns Jim bro another white boy with a podcast you want to see the video it went viral hi gains gurus and welcome to tmgp the muscle growth podcast episode 28 I your host Rosco and today we are welcoming Ava Cohen and James Russo onto the show for part two of their two-part series Ava and James are key members of Team biolane contributing their expertise to the muscle growth podcast where they explore various aspects of Fitness Nutrition and muscle development with a special focus on the most important macronutrient for building muscle protein AA is a highly accomplished bodybuilder and fitness professional celebrated for her inspiring journey in health and wellness known for emphasizing mental resilience alongside physical strength AA shares valuable experiences to motivate other on their Fitness path her approach Blends evidence-based strategies with relatable insights earning her respect throughout the fitness Community with countless bodybuilding titles under her belt Ava truly walks the walk making her insights invaluable to anyone serious about Fitness James is a senior in the applied exercise science program at Springfield College and is recently applied to yukon's PhD program in nutritional Sciences he is an issn Sports nutritionist a natural bodybuilder and currently serves as a teaching assistant for the Sports Nutrition course at Springfield James aspires to become a college professor focusing on the science of metabolism optimal protein intake supplementation and nutritional needs for bodybuilding since July James has been working closely with AA from whom he has gained invaluable insights into the Practical applications of nutritional Concepts he expresses deep gratitude for her mentorship noting that it has significantly enhanced his understanding of the field together a James provide listeners with a blend of practical knowledge and scientific Insight on muscle growth and nutrition making this podcast episode an essential resource for anyone interested in optimizing their fitness journey in today's episode Ava and James dive into a wide range of insights some of the topics include the short comings of rdas the importance of replicating studies AA and James's protein intake and their recommendations the culmination of Art and Science for bodybuilding sustainability and taking a person Centric approach to coaching protein needs increasing as we age the 100 G Bolis intake protein study absorption myth of food such as you can't excrete full chickens plant-based diet protein tips protein timing meal frequency protein distribution protein supplementation the importance of third party testing and quality way types such as concentrate isolate and hydrolized casine vegan collagen proteins General muscle building recommendations and so much more get ready for another truly informative episode if you're injured or in recovery visit the injury consult al.com and schedule a free consultation to explore how I can support your healing restoration and journey to thriving Health the injury consultant now offers specialized packages for fat loss muscle gain and Longevity interested book your free consult today a little disclaimer this show does not contain medical advice the views and opinions expressed by guests on the muscle growth podcast are their own and do not necessarily reflect my beliefs or the St for the podcast while we aim to provide valuable insights and information it's important to approach all topics with critical thinking I encourage you to do your own research consider multiple perspectives and form your own conclusions healthy discussion is always welcome and I'm happy to engage with listeners in the comments to continue the conversation lastly don't forget to follow us on all major social media platforms including Instagram YouTube Tik Tok and X find us at the muscle growth podcast and myself at RS with Rosco yeah so um kind of similar actually I'm glad you mentioned that because it's similar to protein okay um when we're looking at like rdas and things like that those numbers are um and what a lot of people don't realize because when we blast out a recommendation to the general public it's based on enough research of course but it's not based on every individual of every demographic in every situation um at every single like number that they could give you like if we do and that's why this is why we need to replicate studies because if we do and I think there's something Lane said actually once like if we do two studies or if we do one study and we see like this value is better than this value oh that could mean okay this is optimal or that could mean that's just the second worst it could be and the the the lower value is the worst so we need to replicate these um and a lot of these um recommendations are based off of very general numbers that are just to be enough to survive and to not get different diseases um with a lot of vitamins so it's very individualized so again that's why getting blood work is really important because you can see where you're at and what you need um and to Circle back to protein uh like the recommended daily allowance is like8 grams per kilogram body weight which is like extremely low way too low you know that's it is and like yeah maybe that's enough to survive but I think we're all looking to do more than that yeah you want to thrive and you're not going to thrive on 0.8 grams to thrive I genuinely believe you need decent protein and to to work out with resistance training or some form of stimulus for your muscles AA on on that note what's the most protein you've ever consumed like gramage wise would you say gramage wise probably back in the days so maybe 175 grams of protein that was probably on the higher end I definitely would never do that now but that's where I was yeah that's a lot that is a lot that is a lot it's a lot and James how about you uh well so like kind of like what AA was saying before like when you're you know going through in the beginning the best thing to do is make your own mistakes so I've seen a lot of different things before I think there was a point when I might so I'm right now I'm 165 pounds or 170 pounds and that's like the heaviest I've ever been um and I think there there was a point when I was having like well over 200 grams a day which is not really necessary but I just wasn't really sure um it's actually it's not that ridiculous but um yeah so probably over 200 now I'm closer to 180 grams a day okay okay yeah that that's like you said you don't have to uh push the limits and uh I think it's that diminishing returns you get at a certain I think what was it uh 1.6 or so grams per kilogram body weight I think was a cut off again it's not necessarily true for everyone and everyone's different so you should experiment for what works for you but the science I think was .6 gram per kilogram please correct me if I'm lying because I don't want to lie to anyone that's it's just that range from 1.6 to 2.2 depending on your goals yeah that's the range it was it was even up to uh 3.1 still being okay if you're in a very high fat loss phase I believe that was still still okay one of the studies said but I agree 1.6 to 3.2 and they even did up to 4.4 G proving that it wasn't going to your kidneys just as a another one so if you want and you got a lot of money for protein and you love your protein you can you can do it safely I think is is the main main thing um so let's go over some total intake calculations uh okay so yeah just sticking in that range um I think 1.6 to 2.2 is a good General uh range which is again very situational um and and I know like before like I was saying like oh I was over 200 but 180 isn't that far off from that and that's a that's more than 2.2 grams per kilogram um and that's because something again that what Ava is pretty good at implementing is when we want to blend the art of coaching and the practicality of science um what she noticed with my diet is I tend to eat uh more protein I just like that's kind of just I mean just because like obviously I love talking about that kind of stuff but um I tend to just habitually eat more protein um and I think that comes from over the last couple years like going through a couple preps especially when things get low like 180 grams is very easy to hit now but hitting that goal when calories are much lower is a lot more difficult so I tend to kind of build my meals around a protein source which is a which is a good rule to follow for anybody um but since I will typically eat on the higher end of protein Ava kind of adjusted my macros so that my protein is typically a little bit higher um and kind of taper everything a little bit down so that I'm still hitting my total daily calories because that's going to be the main driver of when we're looking at weight gain and weight loss obviously like we want to optimize our ratios um but if I am if everything else is higher say she puts me at 160 G um and everything else is higher but and I'm hitting all my goals but I'm tending to go over on protein my I'm going to be over my caloric goal every day so what she did for me was kind of adjust the rest of it so that I can be a little bit over and as you mentioned the stady show I like I know I don't have any pre-existing kidney diseases so I will be fine consuming a lot of protein and there's a lot of recent studies um with very high protein diets um like I know Jose Antonio from the issn he's done a lot of looking into like extremely high protein diets for athletes and for all different types of demographics and it seems to improve body um composition pretty well because protein is a very satiating nutrient so if you're eating a lot of protein you're probably not going to be as hungry um it also has a higher thermic effect which is very a very small component of our total daily energy expenditure but it's still uh when we're consistently consuming a lot of it that's going to end up playing a pretty decent role especially when we're up to three 3.5 four grams per kilogram um and it's going to be so it's going to be a driver of energy expenditure and we've seen now from these studies that like higher protein is pretty beneficial overall for almost everyone I would I would say everybody um in pretty much all cases of of course if there's people who do have like pre-existing kidney conditions then that's a different story obviously like we're not doctors but um if we're looking at optimizing the physique high protein diet is going to be better and there's there's limitations to that and there's a top end that's not really known it's kind of like a it's a curve that the higher you get it the the different just get smaller and smaller so once you get to a certain point um the differences are going to be extremely small which is why obviously we don't need seven billion grams of protein a day and of there's also that also plays into the amount of calories that we're taking into because it's still it still contains energy that we have to account for um but yeah just going off of all like to wrap up all the calculations higher protein intake is going to be definitely beneficial for for everybody whether you're a bodybuilder powerlifter um in older adult somebody who's sedentary which start exercising please um or athletes or anybody absolutely and in terms of the significance I know you mentioned earlier when you did your beautiful introduction to protein some of the significance are there any other factors you'd like to touch on in terms of the significance you mentioned the body composition the satiating aspect um and how it's important for so many different things is there anything else from the significant standpoint and then also uh I noticed you love talking about protein and it sounds like you love eating it too so that's what a combination yeah uh yeah definitely do um yeah I mean it's just there's so many benefits to a high protein diet um like I was saying before this it's very satiating so if we have somebody who's consuming two people are consuming the same amount of calories and every say everything's exactly the same they're identical twins consuming the same amount of calories have the doing the exact same thing every day if one has a lot more protein and less of everything else the other one doesn't have a lot of protein a lot of everything else to bounce out the person who's consuming more protein probably going have better body composition because now we're driving we're driving muscle protein synthesis we have all of the tools that we need for it we're also burning a little bit more energy um just by consuming it because it takes like I mentioned before there's a nitrogen component so we have to remove that in order to metabolize it and break it down and it takes energy to do that so the person who's going to be consuming a lot more protein is going to have better overall body composition and I've seen with a couple of people who have worked with already um just by having them uh like actually somebody on my campus who I've been working with for a little while all we did were we started working together a little while ago a friend of mine let's hey let's prioritize protein a little bit more in your diet have had him start tracking his diet noticed he was getting 100 110 grams and he's about 225 lbs so I was like all right we need to jack that up a little bit got to up to 200 gram weight and he's also in a caloric deficit um he's his body composition is improving pretty quickly his strength is still going up he's still building muscle because he has a lot of extra energy um and just that small change alone has already been making a difference which is pretty awesome to see so for most people who are just trying to build muscle just getting enough protein alone is a great place to start and it's going to make tremendous differences I totally agree and I'm sure AA does too about the importance of protein you really you can't can't have too much unless your your calories obviously that's important but uh to a large extent you're not going to go wrong eating too much protein as long as you're still getting some fats and some carbs and uh and a well-rounded nutrient dense diet maybe with a multivitamin thrown in with the high percentage nrvs rdas all that kind of stuff yeah and also just to by the way um just to talk about that multivitamin for a second because that's just reminded me um we it's we obviously like the the numbers are different for everybody like we we need a certain amount but if you see a multivitamin that has like 700% of every um B vitamin um don't waste your money on something that's going to have a ton of the what we call water soluble vitamins which are going to be vitamin C and all the B vitamins because since they're they're water soluble that means that they easily are absorbed and also easily excreted so the body takes what it wants and excretes the rest so if you take a like a b complex vitamin that has like 800% of all the B vitamins you're going to take in what you need and then you're just going to have really expensive urine after that and the rest of it going to be gone so getting a uh a multivitamin that has enough of all of them and still that shouldn't replace your diet making sure you have you're getting enough nutrients from your diet is going to be really important it's kind of just a good way to cover everything so I just wanted to throw that in there yeah should no no worries and then just checking uh are you tracking his diet on the carbon Diet app is that what you're using no we're using the team bioline Oh I thought I thought carbon okay new app what's carbon is that something different yeah it's it's separate from the coaching component yeah they're not yet merged I wish they were but they're in the pipeline something for the pipeline maybe I have you tell tell them and then lastly for the protein intake special considerations vegan aging and let's just quickly try and wrap that one up because we still got a few more things to get through as quickly as possible yeah so um like I mentioned before vegans um it's important to make sure you're getting enough essential amino acids so um getting maybe a little bit of extra protein maybe consuming an EA supplement is going to be really helpful um and other consideration that I wanted to mention was aging as because as we age from what we've seen from the research recently protein needs seem to increase so as we get older and I don't remember the exact amount I remember seeing like in a study it was talking about like once you're past a certain age like adding like like 10% of what you're having or it was something like that don't quote me on the the number but the point is as we age the need for protein seems to increase um and so especially once um generally most people become less active as they're older the risk for things like sarcopenia which is just losing muscle mass are really high so as you age it's pretty important to get plenty of protein um which I don't think it's talked about enough absolutely not and thank you for bringing it up I think uh as you mentioned it's super important for especially for people as they age to not eat less protein as I think is probably the trend worldwide again it's an an assumption I might be wrong but I think it's a it's a fair assumption um I think it needs to be the opposite of that and they need to actually eat more protein and uh it's yummy if you if you like your steaks or your meat or whatever it's not hard it is expensive sometimes and I understand that and it's definitely very much against the sad the standard American diet um and uh but I do think that adding more protein especially as your age is a really good idea and if you want you can even get a nice chocolate uh whey protein shake who knows it could be easy but you don't have to make it too difficult anything from you AA there oh no I was just thinking about how easy is to get it in you know cuz I have my you know I use the vanilla outwork nutrition build I never used vanilla before but you know if you find one thing that you like that tastes good that you're not dreading that you can kind of make some desserts with you just that's like you put it in your Arsenal and it's good and you hit your numbers absolutely um my girlfriend's just started doing uh protein pancakes and it's like delicious and then we got some blueberries and some other things and it's like wow it's it doesn't have to be gross um yeah that that's oh man that's my favorite combination those are my two favorite things in this world and then uh on to the next topic protein timing so I think that this one uh recently has been blown wi open um because I know Dr Brad shanfeld has done a few studies now on uh Pro on meal frequency and there have been a few studies on protein distribution and things and there's been a a new Landmark paper with the 100 G bolus study um where the it was 100 g of protein ingested and we thought you have a cut off and now we're like not sure exactly and we still think that um MPS is increased what are your what are your thoughts on the meal frequency and protein timing and I think this one might also lead us nicely to AA because I think this might be one of those more less scientific and more art forms of it might not be the same for everyone it might be different uh depending if you're bodybuilding just General Health um I myself I actually fast Monday to Friday I do 168 I know Dr L Norton doesn't like it but uh that's what I do it works for me and I know it works for a lot of people um so I don't but I do at the same time still get four five meals in in my 8 hour feeding window for example uh but what are your your guys takes on on timing frequency All That Jazz uh so I could I could give a little bit of the background and I think I think Ava could talk a lot about about how she applies that so that study was really interesting um and I'm not surprised but we see we what we've always been told is that like you need to have protein right after you work out you need to spread it across you know we see like people like Jay Cutler which I'm not obviously saying anything against because clearly it worked pretty dang well for him um but people who are spreading out their meals like 10 meals a day um just to try and maximize that which at a certain point I think when you're eating as much as Jay Cutler was like you kind of have to do that that's a lot of food but um what we see from the research is that as long as we're getting in enough protein in our day um we should still be able to stimulate muscle protein synthesis at a pretty good like pretty decent level um it can be a little bit more optimized um if we're spreading it a certain way but um going back to just what I was talking about before about like the amino acid pool and making sure we have sufficient amino acids if we have one giant um meal of protein all of those amino acids are going to be absorbed um so that's one a myth when people say you can't absorb all of it because unless you're excreting full chickens like you're absorbing it um you just might not be using it from like you might not be using all of it for uh muscle protein synthesis um but we are getting sorry that was that was very funny kind of funny but but it's true um we're now taking all those amino acids and absorbing them into the bloodstream and they're going to stimulate that response if we have a ton um which we I guess we really don't know what the maximum amount is and I think it really comes down to if we're looking at this from a practical standpoint if we like it comes down to the amount that your body can utilize like your total daily protein if we're taking all that in the magnitude of the response that we get is going to be um greater we're going to have a longer response um and if we're looking at this in context like people might take that one mechanism and say like oh so I should have like a meal with like 500 grams of protein but if we're looking at this practically and we're looking at your total amount that stimulus should drive us towards sustaining that positive nitrogen balance for enough time to where we're building muscle we're anabolic until our next meal if that's the next day or whatever it is and of course it's not going to be forever but whether you're spreading it out like two meals a day just one meal a day four five the the amount if we look at the actual amount that we're taking in and we standardize that it should be um like standardize it um according to the the total daily amount you should be seeing similar benefits regardless and um according to the research when they look at for when they make suggestions from the studies um according to science it seems like 3 to 5 will probably optimize that just because now we're in a steady state of positive nitrogen balance um and having meals with between 0.25 and 0.5 grams per kilogram um of protein which in absolute terms usually ends up being like 20 to 40 grams depending on your body weight um it's kind of spreading that out but mainly hitting your total daily amount um and the way that Ava applies that I'll let you kind of talk about that well it's just you know everyone gets so caught up in the semantics and the the point you know like it's it's um it's hard to take what the suggested amount is and appropriately figure that what that means to you so it can be confusing it can be convoluted and I think coming back a little bit to look at your total protein you need to eat then you look at your lifestyle and you're like well you know when am I going to train do I like to eat in the morning and you figure all that out and you just if you like three meals then you would put them at each meal so that you can hit your totals and it's finding the way that is sustainable because if you're like eating protein at 6 hours you know post training um you know people I would like I would never have done that back in the day but according to the most recent research you're not going to just lose all your muscle all of a sudden so it's keeping in mind I think what's important is keeping in mind get up and have some protein figure out you know how much you had there and how much do you have to have after that then you set up your lunch and your dinner or however many meals keeping it as simple as possible because if you make it too confusing and hard it it's just that's why people don't want to do it they're like I can't you know stay with this it's too much you know so it it becomes challenging then add in a component like let's say you are plant-based so how do you determine am I going to do you know 1.6 or I'm going to do 2.2 grams per kilogram of body weight like what how do you determine that well you get in there and you start doing it and let's see what you're hitting over time that is and look at that average so that is going to be where you're more trending to go now if you're super below you know low um you might want to think about you know increasing that number but it's it's uh you know cuz for me uh when I started working with Team Bolan I had a a plant-based client so I was going to physique coaching Academy I had the opportunity to ask um you know hey I have a plant-based client what's the bare minimum that to put on muscle to reduce body fat and for physique optimization what's the I want the the bottom line because putting some in a situation to where they're choking down food you know how much beans and rice and the whole thing because it's like I mean it's it can be challenging so that's why I don't like to I set a Target but then I like to look at where people exist naturally and then make some adjustments based off of that as as long as they're getting enough protein I don't want to say Hey you know it's too low let's just forget this whole thing because it's you know because it's never going to happen anyway type of thing you know people feel like oh I'm if I'm not you know they get they get jammed up they get jammed up and in order to unjam people I'm like let's go eat this is how much protein let's spread it out across the day that's good absolutely and you make some fantastic points about keeping it simple the importance of that I think that in our community of the science-based community or evidence-based whatever I think a lot of people get lost in keeping it simple because it is difficult to keep it simple if if we were to take every single paper there's so many papers that actually say completely different things so you couldn't actually do that anyway um but that's just the way science is and it's continually growing improving sometimes going backwards sometimes going forwards hopefully majority forwards um and then also needing to be practical that's another great point you made and then lastly um adjustments and being person specific I think a lot of coaches not going to name them but I know I know some uh they they just have a single cookie cutter program that they give to all their clients and I'm like what are you doing like that's just disrespectful to your clients and uh to like to yourself as well like you need to be better than that like everyone is different and I think maybe they have a male and female program but like it's still it's worth it's it's bare minimum it's bare minimum wow yeah I can't imagine that CU each one of my clients I mean it's completely specialized very I mean deeply because it has to work it has to work for yeah it has to work for the person like even in a contest prep scenario that's why I like the if if it's your Macros kind of thing because then I can create something and sometimes it's moving away from If It Fits your Macros some people are better suited for a meal plan so you have to really take into consideration each person if you want it to be sustainable absolutely and like you said if you just give everyone the same one some will follow it some won't so you really have to dig deep and find what works for each individual client so lastly for the protein uh protein supplementation let's chat about third party testing and quality um way types concentrate isolate H hydrolized I think sorry if I'm not saying that correctly casine vegan and collagen yeah so I can quickly touch upon that just overall when it comes to um SA safety and efficacy of protein you always want to make sure that you're consuming a third party tested brand um and that's not something that people people don't usually think about that um but if you're really trying to get the best results um double checking to see if it's third party tested um or NSF certified things like that like is going to be important just so you know like you're getting what you're buying um because a lot of like more so with things like pre-workout like a lot of supplement companies will say like oh like proprietary blend and it'll be like it'll have like citrine and Arginine and caffeine and all of this huge list of things and it'll say like 10 grams of like this concoction um but like nine and a half of those grams are just like I don't know like some kind of powder just like a filling just to um like if you so if you have like general rule of thumb also like if you have a pre-workout that has like a really huge scoop like the serving is like massive it's probably there's probably a lot of other stuff that's not like what you're actually getting um because they're trying to add stuff like when it comes to flavoring all kinds of stuff like that um so that's there's probably a lot of other stuff and not the ingredients you're really looking for but when it comes to Protein that's just that's just a good supplement tip overall making sure that it's tested trusted um and of high quality and when we look at different types of proteins um most people are interested in whe which makes sense really really good protein um super bioavailable super high Lucine content um and it can be sold as way concentrate um isolate and hydrolized concentrates the most common um that's going to be just I'm not really sure of the manufacturing process exactly but that's like the most basic like just to kind of separate out the way from the milk um so there's still going to be like some carbs and fats involved in that um so it's the cheapest it still has it still has whey protein um it's still very effective and it's great um if you want to really isolate the benefits um no pun intended way isolate it is probably going to be a little bit more effective because now we're literally isolating the way itself there's no carbs or fats in it you're getting just like typically whatever the serving is like let's say 25 grams 25 grams of pure like way isolate um and then the third one is because there's a lot of people who are like um like lactose intolerant things like that but still want to consume whey um but it just bothers them getting a hydrolized powder is going to be really beneficial because that's basically pre-digested um with lactase enzymes predigested way um so it's going to be absorbed way quicker and it shouldn't really cause any GI disturbance or anything like that um other popular supplements like there's there are vegan protein powders which for vegans really really helpful because now that's a way to just get more protein um it's also from what I've noticed just from my own experience getting uh vegan protein powders they kind of like cook a little bit better so if you're making pancakes um maybe the quality of it of the protein isn't as high in terms of like muscle building but it bakes a little bit better just from what I've seen um tasing is another good supplement another common one um digests a little bit slower from whe um one thing I forgot to highlight when it comes to we is that it's absorbed very quick so um that's why people like to have that after a workout not that it's necessarily needed but it could be pretty beneficial faing is a little bit more slow so that's in going to be in things like yogurt um Cottage chees things like that um and it's kind of recommended to have that a little bit closer to like either bed or a time that you're going to be fasting for a while because it's a little bit more slow relasing into the bloodstream um and then one that's a little bit of a Hot Topic right now is collagen um and it's pretty interesting if we're talking about muscle building it's terrible would not get collagen it's actually like oh the loosing content in collagen is like way lower than like most plant-based proteins like it's really it there's not a lot of Lucine um if we're looking at things like hair skin nails connective tissue growth um could be actually very beneficial and that's because um like we said like every amino acid has its own functions lucing when we're talking about muscle growth but if we're looking at connective tissue so like your bones your joints things like that um glycine is going to be a prominent amino acid in that and Proline I believe as well which collagen has a very high concentration of so for maybe a lot of athletes um collagen supplements or foods that are high in glycine could be pretty helpful just for um like impact and for like Quick Cuts Like obviously like injury rates are high just in in any sport compared to like a sedentary person um so a collagen supplement could be beneficial in those cases for muscle building though and I just want to stress that again garbage don't get it if you're trying to build muscle so on that collagen um there's type one and type two is that correct and then only one of them is actually useful and the other one's even more garbage even for other things is that correct or is that was it believe so I'm not really sure too much about the science with collagen just because like you know muscle growth is like the things that I look at so honestly like I wasn't really paying attention to it as much as I should but yeah no worries I just wanted to quickly touch on um the caseine so um and the way so my what I do before gym is I take whe to get some some protein in before training and then before bed I take caseine like you mentioned just before sleep 20 minutes before sleep I take my case in and that sustains me nicely for my fast throughout the day so like your tip there on on the casing and then uh lastly um General muscle building recommendations Eva maybe this one's for you or for James both of you what are your general recommendations I know we could do a whole another episode on just general recommendations but uh you got as much time as you want but just go for it yeah um so all of the science is super fun and it's great to look into like the nitty-gritty of everything um and for those top competitors it's really important to look at that kind of stuff because we want to see like how do we get to the next level um and it's that just kind of reminds me just like another thing that's really important that we don't really look at we tend to see a big gap between um like the really highly Elite athletes and the research and the science because a lot of these subjects like you'll see in every study um like uh you know 18 college aged recreationally resistance trained males like that's like the most common subject um but when we're looking at like these Elite athletes um it's a little bit different just because like like there's so much genetic variation um there's just there's that's a whole another area to unpack but if we're looking at just how do we consolidate this into what we want to suggest to people of course the most important thing which we've said over and over again is getting enough protein so the number one rule that I would have is making sure you're hitting enough protein every day I do think it would be a little bit more beneficial if that's spread out over around three to five meals with a sufficient amount of protein um that being said like we saw that study like oh this person had 100 gr or these participants had 100 grams um and it was still you know elevated um the way I interpret that is I still I personally prefer to spread it out um but if there's a day that I'm running around because I'm in class all day um and I don't have enough time to eat or grab something if I get all of my protein from one or two meals shouldn't make a big difference um but generally getting between 1 Point 6 and 2.2 gram of protein per kilogram of body weight minimum um and making sure those are high quality protein sources with all the essential amino acids ideally spread out between three and five meals of enough protein each um and following a good resistance training program those would be when it comes to protein my probably my best advice to maximizing that some fantastic advice and I'm sure aa's got something to it yeah I uh program for um lean body MK so even you know that's just sort of the guidelines because it's a little bit more specific when I'm working with clients I'm able to bring in as much information about them as possible before determining those macro targets so two between 2.2 to sometimes up to 3.3 grams per kilogram of lean body mass so dependent on the goal the age range and preference that is that range that I work within and I make that final decision after a few weeks of working with someone tracking what they do every day finding an average and making it that sustainable number um you know unless they're you know wonder by so much but if they're starting with me they're already going to be in a good position it's what do they do once I give them the target are they going to hit it or are they not so it's about compliance uh and you know many other factors and that's bringing in that piece of the art of coaching is finding that place where someone can live and then the preference of the other macronutrients getting that in order and then overcoming obstacles getting to an end result and kind of crossing a line so to speak um you know to achieve your goal so it's it's taking the time to determine maintenance but it's to determine where they live I can't even stress it enough because you know when James and I started working together and we haven't fully stepped into that but we do like um case studies and I bring in different you know um clients to say all right what would you do with this this and this so that was the question that he had was about all right well this same question you had I said here's the thing is you have to see how people respond to what you prescribe to them you can tell them whatever you want but if they're not hitting it you better figure out either a way to guide them get them a great supplement or work on the other things in their life that are apparently obal right so working on all those pieces so that they can be compliant so they are adherent and so that they can get to that end goal so to Circle back to the question the 2.2 up to uh 3.2 3.3 because some people not only do they want to um put on more muscle of course reduce body fat but but are you know in the midlife you know a little bit um more mature have a preference for protein then they're going to be higher so yeah absolutely and you guys make fantastic points and thank you so much for all your contributions today I really appreciate it and I'm sure the listeners are going to have an absolute blast listening to the both of you and you guys like I said you've been extra extraordinary and uh this has been a Super Value packed episode so thank you so much for your time and then lastly for the sake of continuity I know we have just kind of done a big sum up but just for the sake of continu um I would say that really lean into it give it everything you have because like someone like me I got into it and um for like people come into Fitness and Nutrition from all different angles but once that clicks for you it's just it's so enlightening and you have to just be obsessed with it um obviously there's a balance but do you know don't be afraid to try things research look into it ask people um and just going off of asking people and trying to find Opportunities I have just always been so obsessed with this stuff and ambitious that I decided to you know reach out to like somebody like like Ava at Team biolene where it's like you know what I'm just another senior in college like why would why would why would that work out but how am I going to know unless I take that chance so I would just say don't be afraid to take chances um whether it's with training with trying something with nutrition um anything Fitness related don't be afraid to try research look into it ask people um and there's so many different ways to learn education never stops um so listening to podcasts like you know great podcasts like this where you can just get so much awesome information little plug there um and just like so more so with like the specifics with the protein and things like that like don't over complicate it like we love to look into the deep details behind all of this and why things work the way they do but we know that resistance training is going to be good we know that getting a lot of protein a lot of quality protein is going to be good so if you know that you already are three steps ahead and just working really really hard with combining with that knowledge and trying to learn is going to just send you so many places so that would be my best advice it's it's really good advice AA I'm sure you've got some more really good IED you know the the wisdom teachings over here it's uh find what you love about it find what you love and lock into that and find the way to make it a part of your life just like brushing your teeth like where where you don't need to be motivated you just do it because to not do it it's a high risk and there's a lot of consequences so don't be the older person that is like frail you know get yourself set up into a regular resistance training program bring in some protein don't overthink it get like get a number get some numbers and just start going just start doing it because in that process even if it's not perfect you will learn along the way and be adaptable being willing to uh keep learning and I would even say get a coach so that you can learn the basics and then keep going thereafter I mean or go do your own research and go to school but at least get a sustainable way to do this meaning going to workout hitting your protein um determining your what your maintenance calories are whatever it is and go just go and understand that you don't need to be motivated to do that on the other side of deciding to do it is really really some cool a cool experience of showing up for yourself and there's so many other things that are included and a part of that so my from my angle and from my perspective I'm a person that learned by going in and doing it in the trenches just go and then you'll learn what you need to work on or um you know the areas that you're strong in and believe me there's a journey within just going drama I just say jump jump there we go no completely I totally agree and I think that's a fantastic got to sum it up James you mentioned balance I I don't think that uh balance I didn't think it was a word in your or aa's dictionary there but it's interesting that you that you mentioned it because you guys are very goal orientated OB healthy obsessed I would say even um which is fantastic um and then yeah you both mentioned don't be afraid to try and I can't uh stress that one enough for everyone listening you really just got to got to try everyone starts from somewhere um some some people do have a little leg up here and there based on circumstance genetics all those kinds of things but don't let that discourage you at all uh and then you both mentioned uh education is for life and if you're not uh Perfection being an illusion AA you made a great point there just don't be afraid to fail and you got to learn to adapt and then the last point that I want to just reiterate was uh Eva you mentioned finding a way to make it a part of your life I think that that and making it simple I think that's something that that I know you guys have done I've done but a lot of people struggle to make it a part of their life but you got to get into the routine it's it can't be down to um do you feel like going to gym because sometimes you're not going to feel like it do you feel like eating with chicken broccoli rice probably not but again like we said we can actually make it nice but just as an example if that's on your meal plan you got to eat it it's not down to discipline is important but most of all making it sustain able as you guys both mentioned and finding a way to fit uh your goals into your life is a fantastic philosophy so once again thank you to both of you and any final words absolute final but other than that we've had a fantastic episode so I thank you both so so much and uh GNA have an absolute great time digesting all this information and digesting all that protein to come well thank you for having us I appreciate it that was fun my my pleasure guys thank you so much and thank you for tuning in to the muscle growth podcast if you found value in today's episode we'd really appreciate it if you could leave us a five-star rating and a quick review it helps us grow and reach more people just like you don't forget to follow us on all major social media platforms including Instagram YouTube Tik Tok and X find us atth muscle growth podcast and at reps with Rosco for more insights exclusive content and full episodes visit the musclegrowth podcast.com your support truly makes a difference so please like share comment and follow we're grateful for every bit of it until next time keep pushing your limits and staying focused on getting bigger stronger and better